The purpose into position (other than casing a good hostage)

From inside the 1228, it appears that this same Clemence along with her husband Nicholas was basically picked to receive child custody out of Joanna and Llywelyn's child Susanna (aged on the fourteen?). is apparently with the youngster to be raised inside a secure and you may safer environment towards chance of a far greater degree. the way it is had been becoming kept off their. The fresh new custodial offer try of the Queen Henry III, half-aunt to help you Joanna and you will half of-uncle so you're able to Susanna, yet the decree named Susanna, Henry's ‘niece' and you may Joanna, Henry's ‘sister'.'

A concern now presents alone. In the event that Joanna try the daughter of Clemence ce Boteler, of, seem to an enthusiastic English home, how do we describe just what Joanna was creating from inside the France when Queen John sent to possess their inside the 1203? That you'll response is you to Clemence's father, Philip ce Boteler are French, in the place of English. It actually was quite common at that time for people to hang features to your both parties of one's Route. So it ed their dilies than in English parents during this period.

The only guide where We have encountered a reference to Clemence Pinel – wife out of Henry Pinel (besides Charles Cawley in Wikipedia) is during Alison Weir's ‘England's Regal Household: The whole Family history (London, 1989).' So it publication try indexed of the one to genealogist because the ‘not very completely annotated.' My trawl from the genealogy and family history community forums found scant source on Pinel loved ones, together with Clemence's husband Henry Pinel. Numerous entries advise that Joanna are the child from Henry Pinel along with his spouse Clemence, however, no present, capable of being searched, are offered. I'm for this reason tempted to disregard which lady from next study. I can end up being extremely wrong.

Number out-of Mortain, from inside the Normandy, know from their [and maybe

Clemence de- Fougers are the aunt out-of Richard de- Hommet Kirgisia-naiset, Constable out of Normandy, and you may Geoffrey de- Fougeres. Their particular father are William du Fougers. I have no time out of beginning (otherwise passing) from Clemence, but she was first hitched ahead of 1200 (zero go out available) to help you Alan de- Dinan, and you may is actually well-known adequate to marry in October 1200, due to the fact her next husband, Ranulph de Blundeville, Earl away from Chester and Vicomte d'Avranches, recently separated (relationships annulled?) of Constance of Brittany.

In 1189, aged seventeen, Ranulph had been married to Constance of Brittany the widow of Henry 11 ‘s son Geoffrey, and the mother of Arthur of Brittany with whom King John contested the succession. Henry did not trust the Countess and wanted her married to a magnate he could trust. The marriage gave Ranulph control of the earldom of Richmond and the duchy of Brittany, but it was not a success (see subject 6. below). The couple had no issue and they separated. It was rumoured you to definitely Earl Ranulph separated Constance in order to have got an affair having Queen John!

Without a doubt, manage that it Clemence be the mom away from Joanna, she would be also the latest grandma of Susanna, although there is no reasoning to trust that more youthful Joanna knew, today, that there try a household dating, in the event the

Since Clemence de- Fougers is daughter and you can aunt of Constables of Normandy, It’s think likely that John, *knew* her, just before her relationship so you can Ranulph]. A near link with John you will establish what can have a look a very beneficial 2nd matrimony having Clemence so you're able to Ranulph.

Ranulph, six th Earl off Chester however, try a strong baron therefore beggars trust, at least for me, he might have approved a wedding so you can a lady exactly who got had a known fling and you will a subsequent youngster from the John, Count off Mortain some 10 years prior to now. Like considering the rumours close a potential affair between John and you may his first partner Constance!